Stop over-using shotguns!

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:27 am

nulgath wrote:

...

What is ... Nulgath? I would consider it spam unless you can explain it?

_______________________________________________________________
Gears of War Judgment Forum ~ Register and post fellow Gears and Locusts

Seriously 3.0 progress: 42/65 Onyx medals

The Funny 4uTube ~ My funny Youtube channel Very Happy

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:36 am

well basically it means oh well, its my use of ..., on the other hand i was going to say you are quite right

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:13 am

Quote:

there is no skill in using lancers not even hammers, they are just overpowered

I have given more than one argument for why this isn't true. If you want the assertion that it *is* true to be taken seriously, you should develop the argument rather than just claiming something. I can claim that the snub is the strongest weapon (including pickups) in the game and say nothing else, and it would make just as much sense as what I just quoted.

Quote:

but though the best rifle for skilled is RL, its a propely adjusted, nor overpowered nor not enough powered weapon,

Retro needs too much trigger feathering at range, and at shorter ranges it has to compete with the gnasher and all you have to do with it is put it on the center of their body and pull the trigger. How is that the "best rifle for skilled"? If you use the lancer, you are *strongly* rewarded for headshots AND more strongly rewarded for actives. Suddenly body-shotting someone up close is more "skillful" than hitting someone running/rolling at range in the head with actives? Really?

Don't get me wrong, retro is a good weapon. However, I don't like it because it conflicts with the gnasher's role too much. In the ranges where it reliably beats the lancer, the gnasher is a good choice and can down people in 2-3 blasts with actives or close a bit of distance for OHKO!

Gnasher >>>>> Sawed off. Sawed off gives up pretty much everything (range, ability to keep shooting, meaningful actives) just to get a wider kill radius. It's a trash weapon especially post-nerf but even before. The only use it has is to cherry tap or troll people.

Quote:

Come to think of it I would take the sneaky approach near the ink grenades, I wouldn't pick them up otherwise they might notice it on the kill feed and know I'm there left or right outside the church.

Sigh. Really? If your teammates are on the balcony, how is the other side going to run out of the church to kill you? The ONLY way that happens is if your team sucks, and badly. If they have a mic they can easily call out their movement, but even if they don't they can at least spot. A reasonably competent (not even necessarily good) player on the balcony would probably 4 point or kill someone rushing you outright.

Quote:

But that's if I'm playing with randoms. If I'm playing with a team of friends we would just stack 2 on each door lob in some smokes get out the Gnashers and go in all guns blazing for a mass shootout Shoot

Once again, unless the smokes get lucky and happen to land right next to a nade plant in the chairs, around one corner or another, etc you're going to be going in 4v5 or even 3v5. Now, with friends you can probably get away with such inferior play choices, but it's still an inferior choice. The team inside HAS to come out, or they lose. Guess who gets forced into a 3v5 if they come out instead of you going in? Thank some proxy inks or just team-fire from the balcony. Their team isn't going anywhere. Hell, you could put all 5 people on the balcony, 3 watching one door and 2 the other. If your guys are good with the lancer, maybe 2 of their team makes it out of there alive. Maybe.

Admittedly, if you're up 8+ stock it's probably OK to just zerg them to death as it will save time.

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:34 am

You really are paranoid about those nades lol. The worst there could be is 2 planted but as I keep trying to stress it's all dependant. I say 2 because of the amount of time they've been camping in there, not just to pick em and plant em but the weapon respawn time and again it's all dependant on how long they've been in there and how much time as passed by, the longer it's left the more dug in they will become, if my team as more respawns then I don't mind running in even if it's just to remove planted grenades, now that right there is team play.

But anyhow I don't mind taking a hit for the team, if I dove on in there and got blown up by a planted grenade then surely that paves a clear path for a team mate or 2 to follow up.

And getting back on the ink grenade area sneaky tactic thing. It was said on the assumption I was playing with randoms. The point you made was assuming I was with a good team. When I say playing with randoms it's exactly that, some team members might be noobs or veterans or anything and everything in between. In your picture you have 2 up at Mortar, who's to say 1 is a skilled player and the other is just a tag along (tag along being as in oh it's safe up here this guy knows what he is doing), either way it's useless to go up there so that's out of the equation I'm sure you can at least agree on that!

_______________________________________________________________
Gears of War Judgment Forum ~ Register and post fellow Gears and Locusts

Seriously 3.0 progress: 42/65 Onyx medals

The Funny 4uTube ~ My funny Youtube channel Very Happy

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:56 pm

Quote:

either way it's useless to go up there so that's out of the equation I'm sure you can at least agree on that!

If it looks like they're at least staying there, your best bet is to support them by trying to cross. Where you go to do so depends on what the enemy team is doing. If they're shooting near boltok/gorgon you have a pretty easy path to look for a cross. Same deal for spawn (if they're at spawn you're mostly going to be blocking a flank and only going up there if it looks like a MASS push is coming toward balcony). If they're in the church you're in good position to pin them there, even if there is only 1 other good player.

At the very least, you can toss a smoke and pick up digger/torque, and then camp the balcony with them or spam them into the church hoping to get lucky (more so for digger). If the other side is in there and you have stock, they literally can't win unless your team goes in.

The only way going into the church is a reasonable course of action is if you're sitting on a BIG lead and looking to end the game. In that case by all means. Otherwise, they HAVE to come out. It's up to them. If they don't they lose. Force that on them. Punish people for playing a "hide inside" strategy. The "cowardly" players (in the words of wookiee) are not the guys on the balcony where everyeone on the map can see and shoot at them. The cowards are the ones hiding, unable to shoot anybody but also unwilling to move. If they come out gnashers blazing, good for them. Most don't unless you make them. Don't reinforce that behavior by letting them get cheap points and pretending they played well. Force them out and punish it.

I've clutched so many rounds with 1 other guy in my party that way. They hide in church with less #'s, and we sit there waiting for them to come out into mortars, torque, lancer fire, etc with only 2 possible routes both involving lines of sight. If you're trying to win, there's no excuse to go in there.

Similar concepts apply to other maps, though less so. High ground on overpass is so strong it's broken. Flame nades on checkout are unbelievably annoying and can cross a surprising % of the map. The sniper positioning on gridlock can easily lock down and cross every other power weapon on the map if you have just 1 guy on the ground near them to cross them (though holding that position is very difficult until you deny ink!). I could go on, but the basic concept is to put the other team in a position where you can shoot them and they can't effectively shoot you or your teammates without being exposed from cover on at least 1 side. There are areas on each map where you can easily lock down most movement and make enemy team movement very predictable.

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Shotguns have been the go to since 2006, people are trained this way my friend. Spotting and intelligent play are the way forward

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:06 am

U can tell who played gears 2 prior to gears 3 by da way they play. gears 2 is based off of da gnasher. Shotgun battles are fun and take skill and aim and movement. Dats all I will say

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:11 am

tymboslycebouncez wrote:

U can tell who played gears 2 prior to gears 3 by da way they play. gears 2 is based off of da gnasher. Shotgun battles are fun and take skill and aim and movement. Dats all I will say

All fights in gears that don't involve power weapons on 1 side take skill, aim, and movement. Those of you who actually pull out AR's know it.

What ARs can do that the gnasher can't is lend support fire or even kill people at long distances. I don't see a lot of players dropping people from halfway across a map...not nearly as many as I see try it. That's probably because aim/actives are lacking.

I don't deny skill required in gnasher battles. That doesn't mean pushing 2 people with the gnasher in TDM is intelligent.

All pick-up based FPS that I've experienced are about map control and the choices a team makes. Gears is definitely no exception. That's all 3 gears, not just GoW 3. Good active lancer shot placement was deadly in GoW 1 and GoW 2 also, especially when crossing someone etc.

Using the gnasher for close range fights situationally is for intelligent players. When you watch games between good organized teams, you'll see them use all of their weapon options as situation dictates.

Using the gnasher as a primary/exclusively is for players who lack concept of map control + lack a sense for the location of the other team and don't want to think...or for noobstomping a lesser team.

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:29 am

shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:45 am

nulgath wrote:

shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Shotguns are the best in close quarters.

A player who refuses to use AR at all in most game modes is garbage. What's the point of a shooter if you deliberately spend long periods of time actively avoiding shooting?

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:07 am

TheMeInTeam wrote:

nulgath wrote:

shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Shotguns are the best in close quarters.

A player who refuses to use AR at all in most game modes is garbage. What's the point of a shooter if you deliberately spend long periods of time actively avoiding shooting?

as much as i dont want to get drawn back into this debate. why do you insist on calling every player who plays differently then you a bad player? if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game.

you probably have no idea how good anyone on this forum plays, so its not good to go around calling everyone 'garbage' (to use your word) when they are playing how they want to play.

_______________________________________________________________
Gears 3 Onyx Medals: 61/65

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:14 am

BigStu4q wrote:

TheMeInTeam wrote:

nulgath wrote:

shotguns are the best without them you are no one

Shotguns are the best in close quarters.

A player who refuses to use AR at all in most game modes is garbage. What's the point of a shooter if you deliberately spend long periods of time actively avoiding shooting?

as much as i dont want to get drawn back into this debate. why do you insist on calling every player who plays differently then you a bad player? if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game.

you probably have no idea how good anyone on this forum plays, so its not good to go around calling everyone 'garbage' (to use your word) when they are playing how they want to play.

I really have no horse in this race, but I felt I needed to pop in here and say that I totally agree with BigStu on this issue. All the different ways to play this game are what keeps it from getting stale. I can hang back and pick people off with a sniper rifle, charge in with a shotgun, or provide supporting fire to teamates with an AR. Just because someone doesn't agree with your style, it doesn't make them "garbage".

Ok, I'm out! Very Happy

_______________________________________________________________

Member of "The NME"

Phenom 247

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:29 am

Quote:

as much as i dont want to get drawn back into this debate. why do you insist on calling every player who plays differently then you a bad player? if everyone played exactly the same then this would be a boring game.

you probably have no idea how good anyone on this forum plays, so its not good to go around calling everyone 'garbage' (to use your word) when they are playing how they want to play.

Why do you insist on claiming I'm doing something I'm not doing? I'm calling out one very SPECIFIC kind of player; the kind that only does ONE thing come hell or high water (IE refusing to use the AR AT ALL, which was stated clearly in the post you quoted...do try not to ignore such important qualifiers since doing so clearly causes you to believe I'm saying something I didn't). I've provided plenty of reasons why these players hurt their own team, something you've not really refuted. Instead you chose to attack the way I went about presenting my point, which is a valid thing to do in terms of attempting to change my forum behavior but doesn't really refute the point one bit.

Who did I call garbage? I targeted a very specific kind of player. Not just "people who play differently" Are you saying that you only use the shotgun and nothing else? I thought you said you didn't do that. I would assume every halfway decent player on this forum knows how and when to use the weapons. If they make different judgments in different situations that's one thing. If they make no judgments and always use 1 weapon, then yes they're probably garbage. Is that you? Who that is serious enough about the game to post on this forum does that?

Of course, you're perfectly fine with someone else saying that "without a shotgun, you are no one". Selection bias much? Why only call one person out? He made a MUCH more general statement than I just did.

Quote:

I really have no horse in this race, but I felt I needed to pop in here and say that I totally agree with BigStu on this issue. All the different ways to play this game are what keeps it from getting stale. I can hang back and pick people off with a sniper rifle, charge in with a shotgun, or provide supporting fire to teamates with an AR. Just because someone doesn't agree with your style, it doesn't make them "garbage".

Ok, I'm out! Very Happy

So, in other words you claim to agree with him but then spend a paragraph telling us that my point (not over-using one weapon to the point of hurting one's own team...and how does only using 1 weapon not make the game stale? You're clearly using all of them) is the one you actually practice and agree with :/.

Also, killing someone who is shooting at your teammate (on thrashball) from torque while in the concession area or mulcher spawn area isn't about "style". You have 2 choices there: you either shoot the guy you have a CROSS on, or you do nothing and then a decent % of the time your teammate dies while you contribute nothing. THAT is the kind of situation I'm griping about griz. I'm not angry because people use the gnasher; it's a good weapon. But when they have it out when they COULD have EASILY killed someone with an AR and refused to do so like some kind of dull-minded donkey...then it stops being about style and they start becoming objectively bad players.

You aren't going to run down the stairs and all the way to the middle of thrashball from concessions and kill someone with the shotgun, but you can easily fire an AR down there and change the outcome almost instantly from where you are. That's not style. There is one correct choice. Either you're fighting someone and can't help your teammate (moot point then), or you're choosing between playing well and playing poorly.

Subject: Re: Stop over-using shotguns! Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:54 am

i honestly dont think there is a player on gears 3 that REFUSES to use some sort of rifle, but when you are running around on the map it is best to have the shotgun equipped in case there is someone camping close by.

you called 'players who refuse to use the AR' garbage. that is an exact quote. since (if they exist) they only use the shotgun, then they play differently then you. so my point is valid.

i don't believe i ever said whether or not i only use the gnasher, (i may be wrong on that, is quite late and i cant be bothered to sift through the pages) but i dont, i mix my gnasher and lancer dependant on the situation. there are 2 maps that i do switch directly to gnasher at the start and those are checkout and raven down. in my opinion they are purely shotgun battle maps. i've never killed anyone or been killed by a rifle on either of those maps.

in relation to nulgaths post, you learn to ignore them. Laughing

and once again, towards the end of your post (in relation to my previous post) you call people garbage. i will ask you this question again, that i have asked before and you ignore: Who are you to determine who is good and who is bad? are you some sort of god on gears of war?

i consider myself to be a decent player, but yesterday i had a 3 match run of deaths outweighing kills. so am i 'garbage' or was i having a bad session?

i wouldn't attempt to change your forum behaviour unless you broke the forum rules.

i'm really not interested in getting into a flame war with you so shall we just leave it with: everyone play as they wish when you're in a team of randoms. if you want structured teamwork then you will have to go into matches with a party (at least 3 i'd say)

_______________________________________________________________
Gears 3 Onyx Medals: 61/65

» How can we actually stop these sick fucks?
» Please stop making so many topics about the same thing
» Stop mail me reply notifications
» Hi all was looking around and this srong odor of troll made me stop by
» How to track your Ddos attacker and how to stop him (A little bit a boust DDos)

Stop over-using shotguns!

Stop over-using shotguns!

Similar topics

Similar topics