Sawed off Shottgun

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sat May 05, 2012 6:34 am

Quote:

you seem to think the entire game revolves around map control, where-as 90% of the time people just want to fight each other, be it in shotgun battles or rifle battles.

Well, that's odd. In games I play, it seems like people die all the time because more than 1 person shoots them, even when I'm not one of the 2. Probably over half the deaths I see involve some form of ganging up on someone, be it with shotguns or rifles.

And what allows for the most favorable 2 (or more) vs 1 to happen? Map control.

You don't need heavily organized teams or everyone with mics in order to spot + shoot people from a distance.

How many times do people die to people running up behind and nailing them with the gnasher? I have experience with playing on a full team of AR users, and experience playing alone or just with 1 teammate. When people on your team use AR and spot people, that almost never happens. When weak players with their gnashers out do nothing or chase at a distance as someone flanks around on their teammate with a gnasher, they're giving the other side kills and costing their own side kills.

Map control is what wins games. Not "just fighting someone".

You want to run some 5v5 where one of us shotguns and the other goes for power positions with ARs? We'd need to play for an hour or so to iron out just basic play variance (anyone can have slow/fast games), but I'm pretty sure you could outscore yourself using shotguns by using rifles if you knew/know how. It's pretty hard to beat a ~700 score/round average against other humans, and the players I've seen higher than that definitely used rifles!

The reason for that is really basic. You are moving or shooting. When using a rifle, you spend less time moving and more time shooting than with shotguns. To outscore someone using AR and playing for map control with a shotgun, you would need the following to be true:

1. Other team is not at your skill level; you can consistently win 1v1 shotgun battles. Every time you lose one, you die and have to wait before doing damage/getting kills again. Sounds silly, but when you get closer to people you die more often obviously.
2. Other team does not have map control; you can take much faster routes to them
3. Other team is not coordinated; approaching the enemy with shotguns does not leave you consistently outnumbered OR your team is coordinated and moving with gnashers in groups with good timings. One or the other.
4. You can actually travel the distance between kills fast enough to keep up with a rifle just killing them without moving much at all.

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sat May 05, 2012 7:59 am

you know what man, i'm done. you're obviously incapable of seeing any other viewpoint or strategy other then your own.

so all i will say is: enjoy your gears of war experience and the best of luck with your future endevours

_______________________________________________________________
Gears 3 Onyx Medals: 61/65

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sat May 05, 2012 11:37 am

BigStu4q wrote:

you know what man, i'm done. you're obviously incapable of seeing any other viewpoint or strategy other then your own.

so all i will say is: enjoy your gears of war experience and the best of luck with your future endevours

Is it so much to ask, in a team tactical shooter...to maybe use teamwork? Why do people join into TEAM games if they have no intention of TEAMWORK.

And is it really that much of a reach that having a weapon out in situations that preclude timely teamwork is bad play?

I'm not the one who's struggling to grasp certain concepts here.

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sat May 05, 2012 1:22 pm

TheMeInTeam wrote:

BigStu4q wrote:

you know what man, i'm done. you're obviously incapable of seeing any other viewpoint or strategy other then your own.

so all i will say is: enjoy your gears of war experience and the best of luck with your future endevours

Is it so much to ask, in a team tactical shooter...to maybe use teamwork? Why do people join into TEAM games if they have no intention of TEAMWORK.

And is it really that much of a reach that having a weapon out in situations that preclude timely teamwork is bad play?

I'm not the one who's struggling to grasp certain concepts here.

Hmmm that seems ironic to me. Somehow I cant see you being much of a team player. You don't even appear to be able to understand others perceptive or have the ability to process that your way may not be the only way. Call me crazy but I don't think being a team player is one of your strengths.

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sat May 05, 2012 6:16 pm

BikiniCladKilla wrote:

TheMeInTeam wrote:

BigStu4q wrote:

you know what man, i'm done. you're obviously incapable of seeing any other viewpoint or strategy other then your own.

so all i will say is: enjoy your gears of war experience and the best of luck with your future endevours

Is it so much to ask, in a team tactical shooter...to maybe use teamwork? Why do people join into TEAM games if they have no intention of TEAMWORK.

And is it really that much of a reach that having a weapon out in situations that preclude timely teamwork is bad play?

I'm not the one who's struggling to grasp certain concepts here.

Hmmm that seems ironic to me. Somehow I cant see you being much of a team player. You don't even appear to be able to understand others perceptive or have the ability to process that your way may not be the only way. Call me crazy but I don't think being a team player is one of your strengths.

Call me crazy, but you're not addressing my points at all.

I might change my view if I got some competent arguments here. It's happened on other forums, but apparently it's just a gnasherfest here and people don't like using team work in TEAM games lol.

The only ironic thing is that you think that 2 shotguns is somehow a good loadout for said teamwork.

Attack my arguments, not my credibility, or you have no credibility.

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sun May 06, 2012 3:05 am

Lol ok in all honesty im not really capable of taking your incoherent rants seriously. But humor me, how am I attacking your credibility?

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sun May 06, 2012 7:05 am

Quote:

Lol ok in all honesty im not really capable of taking your incoherent rants seriously.

This looks very bad for your ability to grasp my points Wink

. Perhaps you should look up the definition of "incoherent" and try again.

Quote:

But humor me, how am I attacking your credibility?

Ok.

Quote:

Somehow I cant see you being much of a team player. You don't even appear to be able to understand others perceptive or have the ability to process that your way may not be the only way.

Does this address any of my actual points? No, all it does is insult (and rather ironically for someone who watches enemies blow teammates away from behind, at that) my behavior as a team player.

Quote:

Well not everyone can handle dual shottys and hold map control. Its good that you know you cant.

Once again, failing to address my point of what ranged play is capable of doing, you instead simply imply that I can't use double shotgun. Regardless of if that's true (and it isn't), it's irrelevant. You are once again going for credibility by attacking mine instead of making any actual counter argument of your own.

The closest you came to giving an argument of ANY kind at any point in this thread was to claim double shotgun loadout is somehow better than gnasher + anything in "some" and "clutch" situations, going on to describe exactly 0 of said situations.

Everytime I bring up map control here, people cry at me and call me names but can't actually refute the value of map control towards winning games. Long range weapons can literally dictate the other team's movement, forcing them to take different, longer routes to reach your team and killing people who don't do that. They make charge approaches at your teammates costly because you can badly damage or even kill them outright + rifles are MUCH more likely to get timely spots so they bring up team awareness, even in random teams. When you're in the middle and someone is charging your teammate with the sniper on drydock from low ground, you can rifle + spot that guy, doing ~60% or more of his health and letting the sniper know he's being attacked. What MOST players will do in that situation with their gnasher out is to ignore it. Spotting/calling it out is preferred, but the vast majority of the time (and the people I call out the most), they do nothing or simply go somewhere else and let their teammate die.

Letting teammates die is not a style. Deliberately switching to loadouts where you can't support your teammates in a lot of situations is not a style (and don't get me wrong, I wouldn't advocate something like lancer + hammerburst either). Not using teamwork in game modes explicitly designed around team play is not a style. These things are comparable to killing yourself or staying at spawn (or would you claim those are styles too?), only not as far in that direction of the spectrum.

Style dictates the role one chooses within the team, how one approaches 1v1 situations, etc. Letting teammates die and refusing to take/use map control is not a "style", it's bad play. Most of the time one is packing double shotguns, they have no ability to fire at range and immediately forfeit a ton of map control. What do they get in return for forfeiting the ability to control enemy movement and help their team? A one shot kill at melee range, which they already have!

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 am

lol well you clearly have WAY to much time on your hands! I honestly couldn't be bothered to finish reading that because 1, I described two situations and 2, i never referred to clutch situations ect. I stopped reading once you assumed you knew my gameplay style and put words in my mouth Smile

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sun May 06, 2012 4:23 pm

Quote:

lol well you clearly have WAY to much time on your hands! I honestly couldn't be bothered to finish reading that because 1, I described two situations and 2, i never referred to clutch situations ect. I stopped reading once you assumed you knew my gameplay style and put words in my mouth

Oh, my bad for using one wrong word that was said by someone with a (so far apparent) similar opinion on this matter.

Claim whatever you want, but it looks mighty suspect when people "stop reading" when they conveniently can't handle the other side's points.

I could have "stopped" reading when you assumed I'd be a bad teammate (which surely carries ASSUMPTIONS about my "gameplay style"...but it's not really surprising to see hypocrisy from someone who refuses to utilize logic). However, in contrast to your choices on this thread so far I opted to demonstrate literacy and the ability to put forth a competent argument.

But hey, if you're giving up without even trying, that's that. That reminds me of a lot of players I see in the game actually. You're doing the forum equivalent of just standing at spawn.

BTW, here is the nice, overwhelming "detail" of the situations you "described"

Quote:

I have definitely done it when rushing a point in king of the hill, or when being completely spawn trapped.

Those who are familiar with the English language would probably refer to that as a list of situations where you have chosen your loadout poorly, and not as "describing" those situations. There is a reason for that, but it might be difficult to grasp for someone who refuses to read a paragraph or two (IE spawn traps and rushing points can have EXTREMELY different situations depending on the enemy team behavior and map).

Let me know if you need help with that or if you need a link to an online dictionary or something. Maybe that will help you build your case rather than continuing on the "I have no actual argument to support my position so I'll just insult you again" path.

Or is a dictionary a bit hard too?

Cmon, surely the "shotgun come hell or high water" crowd has SOMEONE who can demonstrate with a modicum of sense that such is a comparably effective alternative to using AR for map control and shotgun for cqb. Right? I mean, if it's just one STYLE vs the other then that must mean that this other "style" can be effectively demonstrated to provide a similar contribution to victory. There must be at least ONE literate guy/gal who can do this right? RIGHT?

Although I never did get an answer to my earlier question. Maybe staying at spawn doing nothing and suiciding with frags repeatedly are ALSO considered "styles" here? Shooting teammates? Standing on gorgon SMG all game? All styles perhaps? In THAT context, then maybe double shotguns are ALSO a "style".

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Sun May 06, 2012 4:54 pm

lol seriously dude Laughing

Subject: Re: Sawed off Shottgun Mon May 07, 2012 4:18 am

BikiniCladKilla wrote:

lol seriously dude Laughing

Lol!

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Sawed off Shottgun

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